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inquiry based practice
December 2009 
The Self In Question – TSK weeks 2-3
Davidu
For the last few weeks we've continued to investigate the self in our experience by looking for the 'I' in operation, and challenging the 'I' by saying 'no' to what it wants. Our teacher, Jack Petranker, says, we do this because once we see how the 'I' operates, we get some sense of detachment, better able to see with a more open and spacious perspective. Consequently, there's more room to experience more fully, there are more options available, more possibilities present themselves.
In our weekly conference call we discussed how every experience has a surface – the stories of the 'I' – but this is a layer of illusions. Under this layer is more, for instance, in the morning we often experience a kind of waking up into the 'I'. If you go deep enough you don't know who you are. Who tells the story? No one, there's just stories. The 'I' is like a dictionary of itself, a self-referencing circularity. When we let go of 'I' we gain a creative unfolding of experience.
A question was posed, "What purpose does the 'I' serve? If the 'I' or 'self' is a construction, why is it constructed? Why do we operate from this sense of 'I'?"
At first I thought the self is a learned behavior that surfaces when as infants we begin to get a sense that we are physically different from our mothers. It's a process or skill we gradually become used to and more proficient as we develop over time and remember past experience. If we didn't learn to differentiate ourselves from others and things, we would have tremendous difficulty adjusting to life, unable to distinguish what was safe or dangerous, unable to discriminate between alternatives or opposites. We would be continuously confused.
But while this may have some merit, a TSK perspective looks a little differently at the functions or activities of 'I'. As I practice watching for the 'I' in my experience, I see it showing up in language. It's an anchor word, used to label and pin me to a time, place, or identity, to 'fix' it in place or freeze it, so that I can attach other times, places and identities in relation to 'I', like a gathering of self-referencing ideas, or 'things'. The 'I' seems to gather from there, accumulating in memory, available for reference in each new experience.
The way I think, the stories I tell about myself -- who I am, where I came from, how the world is -- are all told from the perspective of this 'I' that organizes and gathers its experience around itself in time. As Rinpoché says, the self is a 'consolidating tendency', a 'gathering tendancy'. As such, it tends to reveal itself in these activities: objective self, perceiver, interpreter, narrator, and witness or owner.
• First is the 'objective self', subject to history and conditioning, to birth, life, and death. This is the aspect of self that gives self-identity its content: a personal history and a personality, a set of goals and purposes, a physical locatedness and an embodied nature. But this self—the self as object, with an identity and characteristics knowable by others—is part of the world 'out there'. It lacks the unique capacity of the self to occupy the 'here', which sets it apart from the rest of existence.
• Second is the self as 'perceiver', active 'here and now' in the present. Confined to the moment, this self lacks the power to shape, define, and organize experience.
• Third is the self as 'interpreter'. This is the self as subject in a world of objects, defining, naming, and labeling: the self of descriptive knowledge, knowing on the basis of the past. But... interpretations lack the power to found themselves. A self reliant on them is in the end only another interpretation.
• Fourth is the self as 'narrator', the self of intentional knowledge… The narrator gives meaning to events by directing them toward the future...
• Fifth is the self as 'owner' and 'witness', validating experience and reality in validating its own identity: the self that underlies and guarantees the perceiver, interpreter, and narrator. This is the 'core self' whose existence is the key to all temporal knowing. LOK p.170-1
I have been focusing my practice on watching for these activities, and found this way of looking at experience helpful. As Rinpoché says:
"A single story may be fully formed, subtle, and intricate, or fragmentary and suggestive. In either case, it allows for the possibility of subsidiary stories, bars the telling of conflicting stories, and establishes a framework for later experience, defining the understanding within which descriptive and intentional knowledge operate. As stories interweave and grow more elaborate, parts slip out of view, too complex in form and content to be grasped as a whole.
The growing complication (and internal conflicts) of the web of stories can lead to a fascinated self-absorption. The self learns to turn to its own stories for gratification and to make sense of events. Tracing out the patterns of interlocking stories permits the creation of new, more comprehensive, or more satisfying stories, including stories about stories, or even stories (such as this one) about how the story-telling mechanism operates.
Common to all these stories is the narrator itself. Who is this narrator that tells the tales that shape existence? A clear answer is given: It is none other than the actor at the center of every story — the owner of each experience. But the narrator is also none other than the audience that reacts to each story with emotions, explanations, justifications, and more stories.
…the narrator is none other than the objective self whose identity and attributes the intersecting narratives establish. The narrator’s stories unite owner, actor, and objective self, bearing witness to their existence and persistence 'over' time. The central narrative structures — "I am; I feel; I experience; I want; I act" — are the self-authenticating truth of every story.
The narrator thus asserts the self by telling another story — a founding story that makes possible all other stories. For without an actor at its center, an audience in attendance, and a teller of the tale, no story could unfold and meaning could not emerge. But this founding story is intended as its own witness: presented as the basis for self and world alike. LOK p.172
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PRACTICE NOTES TABLE OF CONTENTS
Fall Session - "Self in Question"
September 27th - December 13, 2009
Davidu
1. The Self In Question – TSK Week 1
2. The Self In Question – TSK weeks 2-3
starlight
3. Binding Through Identity...TSK wk 4...
Balder
Access: Public
Hey David, this was an excellent presentation of the many ways that our 'I' manifests. This should be very helpful and easy to understand for anyone reading…great insight into the I's…lol…*****
Thanks Star,
It is very easy to read past this excerpt from Knowledge of Freedom – these beautiful 'drive-by' thoughts – and miss the profound depth of their meaning. They provide a slowing of time's motion, a time-lapse view of what we are attempting to observe in these exercises. So I thought I'd post it here:
When we see a star, we are not seeing the star as it is at this moment, but as it existed perhaps millions of years ago… In the same way, there is a gap between our experience and our identification; what we are experiencing at this very moment is already past.
Because the interval between our experience and our identification of it is so brief, we tend to confuse the fleeting experience with the label we assign it. Overlooking the living moment and riveting our attention to the concept, we miss aspects of experience that are not already cognized and labeled. We live our lives through a fixed repertoire of responses, unable to appreciate the fluid, dynamic nature of our experience.
The 'I' may continue to grasp at the memory of the experience, but it cannot prolong the living, changing moment… no more possible than drawing the same water twice from a moving river. KoF p.314
Hey David, his style of writing is so fluid and openended…I gain so much from reading what he has written over and over again…slipping right into that openended frame of mind…or is it mind not framed…LOL…
What gave me an ahha moment, and cause for pause, was where he shows, through his words, that the I has been born of thought…not the other way around…the I takes control of thought as a tyrant owner…like when someone finds a nugget of gold, which belongs to Mother Earth, and takes it, saying “this is mine!” GOL…
I don't know the exact chapter, but it is in one of the three we have been reading…I could go and find it and post the actual paragraph…*
It's on pg. 312-313 in chapter 30, The Illusory I…
Prior to this, he describes the process of seeing, then asks where the I was in the earliest stages of the experience…(you could say the same thing when it comes to our breathing, our heart beating, etc.)
In the case of visual perception, the process seems to begin with an experience of seeing. There is something large and solid 'out there'. It is a tree. Then what is 'in here' that is seeing this tree? It is 'me'. I am seeing the tree. There is seeing, there is a tree that can be seen, and there is the one seeing the tree. If there is the experience of seeing, and if there is something giving rise to this seeing, then there must be someone doing the seeing.
If 'I' responds, then if must respond to the arising thought or image; thus, the thought or image is the subject, effecting a result upon the object, 'I'. Or is the thought or image the object, because it is not part of 'I'? 'I' am central, 'I' identify, 'I' name,, 'I' am the subject. 'I' see the tree, the tree doesn't see me!
Our primary experience is one of responding to a situation that presents itself–a simple movement of energy. Initially there is only an interaction of our senses with a situation; only secondarily does the experience become polarized into subject and object–a relationship between two things, such as a tree or a thought and ourselves.
Only when we identify something like a thought or a tree does th4e issue of subject and object arise at all; even then the thought or tree is actually cognized before we can know: ”'I' am having a thought.” Habitually we refer to ourselves as the subject or owner of the experience: ”'I' am having a thought” or “'I' see a tree.” But really it seems that the thought itself is the subject, producing the idea of 'I' as a response. When we reverse this situation linguistically, we condition the way we view our reality, turning it upside down.
David, can you maybe write a little about the experience of 'slowing it all down'? So far, we both have not really done that…you have done a great job of outlining what we are doing, I did a great job of re-posing all the questions I think…lol…
I suppose I am more comfortable reporting through my poetry…I get caught up in the timeless moment…dancing on the edge of time…in the joy of being…
My world and experience begin to dance…yesterday when I finally managed to carry my sad self and it's back outside…I fell into the blues of the sky…it was so awesome I melted into…instant bliss…I was not aware of me driving myself anywhere…(at one instant I muzed about the sanity of that, lol, but then got lost again)…the horizon, the mountain range dividing the sky, the many shapes of the clouds it was all so consuming…the sun was setting, the sky opened up to other colors and shapes…then I was emersed in the landscape again…still so much green, but a completely yellow tree…then tops and patches of orange and red…breathtaking really…sigh…
I'm chalking again, so I am going to try and capture it on canvas…anyway…the trees had changed from a few days so much…I was just in awe…just in awe…then when I got to my Mom's, I ate, and then went out on the porch…the night had fallen by then and I was literally dancing outside in her yard singing this new song that wrote itself…Grace of Love… I was caught up in the dance of being…that is where I am home now…and where I usually am no matter if I am dancing in my kitchen fixing me some oatmeal…oatmeal is soooooo good! LOL…
Anyhoo…you are so graceful in your writing when you share your actual experiencing…and I would so love to get lost in it's beauty…
much love and joy*
TSK ROCKS!!!
Star! You make me want to be a better writer… would that I were as good as you say! :-)
Anyway, I'm no expert at 'slowing it all down', but sitting quietly and observing helps. There's a great line in the book we're reading: ”Self-observation strengthens awareness, which supports the growth of insight and heightens the clarity of observation.” LoF p.338
Isn't that why, as you say, you “get caught up in the timeless moment…dancing on the edge of time…in the joy of being…”
I know in your poetry you're trying to express something you intend. But in those instants when you are intending, waiting for the words to come to say the feelings, aren’t you open and observing yourself? I often am observing the narrating process, I sort of back up a ways to get a bigger picture. It isn't just a stream of words that I jot down, often they bubble up from somewhere, like in a dream. Does it mean the words are linked to a deeper level, a level where things are happening out of view? Rinpoché says:
There is a TSK exercise called Intimacy that I describe here. When you encounter thoughts, sensations, or objects, you say to yourself, ”That too is I.” You embrace it in its immediate givenness as being part of 'you'. You may well have felt that way as you drove through the rolling landscape of fall colors, and as you fixed the oatmeal that you love. :-) But you can do it with a tree, a vase, a feeling of pain, a flash of anger. That's TSK.
Somewhere in the book TT warns of the trap of making the self a villain. It's not that the self is bad, the point is to try and be aware of when and how the self is in play; which activity is operating, can you distinguish multiple activities at once. That's one really good way how ”Self-observation strengthens awareness”.
Best,
D
Hey David…and no, no, no!!! I never write poetry like that…poetry writes itself…much like you said of the bubbling up from the process before there is an 'I' to claim it…it evolves through life…each word built on another even before it comes to being a line…an interaction with someone or something then will give birth to something that 'I' did not write…every now and again, I will stumble for a moment on a line or a word…but mostly it flows without any distinguishing of thought given or any intention of intended of projected ideas…there is hardly ever a waiting for words…sometimes later I will come back and change a word or two…especially if I am putting music to the lyrics so that it will flow better…but this is really rare…most of the poetry on my blog is free-flow…
Same with my dance of being…there is no 'I' to watch…or to even say “I am the tree”…just pressence of being…undescribable joy…dancing with…in harmony…not separate…all of the field communique…isn't that what TT calls it?
And oh YES…if the vision didn't work with the pain…I'd be back on drugs permanently for real…guaranteed…so much gratitude for TSK vision…
anyhoo…just wanted to clear that up…the only writing I have to think about are these TSK essays…LOL…maybe that is why my 'I' gets frustrated at times…but even that is changing…due to my watching the 'I' in operation…gonna go back and finish reading what you posted now…love and joy*
I'm glad you find me encouraging…but you ARE a lovely writer…*
Hey again, yeah, I wrote about that aspect of making the ego/self the enemy…been there done that…not as much so now b/c of TSK…I think alot of my frustration in the past, and still now, has been just that…trying to overcome that guilt/shame/complex of not being good enough, etc…and so it becomes a battle to try and rid yourself of yourself…LOL…which of course is impossible…totally into accepting the whole of what I am…whatever I am…I have to credit AA with a lot of that as well…it is a path of inquiry and rigorous self-honesty…
anyhoo…what a journey…lovin' it…*
I like this excerpt from the book we're reading. Rinpoché is talking about what he is saying, some of which is quoted above:
If we can see the patterns that hold us hostage, it may occur to us that in the very act of seeing, we have touched a deep source of knowing. What is this new seeing and new knowing? Where does it come from? Is it different from thinking? Is it just another trick of the 'I'?
…Observing the activity of the mind in a quiet, relaxed way, we find that thoughts soon sweep us up in the old drama. It all happens so quickly we cannot seem to track the movements in our minds. For one thousandth of a second we may glimpse a pause, but it's hard to experience the transition from one story to another. p.337
…As the images shift and change, they may seem to be illuminated – what is this 'light' that allows us to see our dreams and memories? Or perhaps the images themselves are somehow are imprinted on a field of transparent light energy.
Thoughts and images seem to shoot into our awareness from nowhere, already linked together into a complete scenario. But this may be misleading. If we could see the smaller units that make up our stories, would we take the drama itself so seriously?
If all our dramas are happening within the mind, we may want to ask: Then who is creating the suffering and who is receiving it? It seems the 'I' is part of the story, not its creator. If there is no one creating or receiving suffering, then where is the substance of the minds activity?
…When we experience pain or discomfort, we can consult with our own intelligence to find a way to release ourselves from the pain. If we find ourselves holding on stubbornly to frustration or dissatisfaction, we can question ourselves more closely. Where can the holding on take place, if not in our own thoughts? p.338-9
Hey David,
This was good to come back to and read…knowing that we are not really looking for any absolutes, 'I' still spins a story behind inquiry…but the story is more of an opening…but 'I' still wants to justify and make sense of what is happening…
One of my 'I's' (lol) has been looking closely at one pattern inparticular…my 'I' always comes to the conclusion that the situation it finds itself in must be accepted (if it is considered a negative one)…while in the situation, have found that it is not helpful really to distinguish the 'I' that is suffering from the thoughts that cause it to…in fact, it is rather funny…much like a tree with branches and leaves…to think that 'I' have any control over much of anything…and yet, there is much 'I' do seem to have control over…omg&g…that sounds so ridiculous…gol
It seems to all come back to gratitude…and still not sure how much control being or awareness or this knowing has over it's 'I's'…just like a tree…trying to hang on to or let go of it's leaves…maybe the answer is blowing in the wind…gol*
Sometimes 'I' or 'I's', struggle…and sometimes 'I' and 'I's' do not struggle…sometimes there is a definite noticing of this…and sometimes being is free of it…and gratitude and living in the moment seem to be the determining factor…*
Hey Star! I appreciated your introspection, and I loved the tree losing its leaves analogy to the self losing its stuff to a more open experience, which may well be cyclical.
It got me thinking of something I said in the opening of this thread that I experience almost every morning. When I wake up into the 'I', coming from some deeper place, I don't know who I am. Who tells the story? No one, there's just stories. Have you ever done that? You just awaken to find the mind is running, the story motor is on, but there's no one in control, until you actually take control, and assert your 'self'. You're like lolling and then, you're there, in charge. For me, as you say, ”there's a definite noticing” of the grand entrance, stage left, of the great 'I', himself. :-)
That is the identifiable point at which I can say I saw where the 'I' was inserted in my experience. Of course, I didn't see a thing, what I saw was where the process of 'I' began. One prior moment there was no activity taking control, and the next there was. I saw what that felt like.
What is to be gained from this seemingly innocuous instant? Most of my life this instant has passed by unnoticed by the thousands, or when it was noticed, it was thought of as curious but lost to the next blizzard of thoughts, feelings, plans, and intentions. The reason I now always take note of it – dwell as long as possible in that prior moment – is to become familiar as I can with what is immediately prior and immediately succeeding. It helps me grasp the subtle control of the 'I' with ever more clarity. It's as subtle as a light breeze, a whisper. We let it go every night as we lose interest in our stories, and drift into the abyss, resting at the edge of the future. When we awaken and 'I' takes control, we pick up from the past and project into the future, until once again we sleep. It's hard to notice the 'I', because it's a process doing different things at different levels.
Best,
David
Hey David, I remember you mentioning that in a previous blog entry as well, and I remember thinking about my experience…
I have experienced what you are talking about upon awakening several times, but in a different way…my experience was completely empty of anything but frightful confusion…and when my thoughts or awareness tried to establish an 'I', or allow it to enter or rise within awareness…it was as if my 'I' was thrashing around in an ocean of oblivion/confusion grasping for it's life perservor…it was not a pleasant experience…in fact, it was very frightening…and not one I care to experience again…it made me so grateful for my mind…and right then and there I stopped wishing that my mind and it's thoughts would cease racing…it was several years back when I was studying Dzogchen that this occurred…I was practicing contemplation quiet a lot in those days, and able to relax into my own true nature with no prob…
Recently though, I have experienced it in a less threatening or scarry way…maybe a little closer to what you are talking about…but since this being without an 'I' is experienced quiet often now, there is not much of a distinct distinguishing…it is an easy flowing in and out of…which may have more to do with how lax and uncontrolled and pretty free my life is right now…but when the 'I's' are experienced…they are so in full concert…but like you, there is an awareness of noticing…and it is less constricting b/c of tsk…
I don't see how 'I' have any control over it…and that is what can be frustrating at times…how awareness can go from this state of just being to this aggravating series of 'I's' that seem to want to drive you through insanity…lol
'I', or something, has this ability to zone out while still being very aware…a gift really, and one I am very grateful for in the face of the physical pain I face on a regular basis…
anyhoo…that's my experience so far…always, Star…
One thing to add…during these experiences, 'I' could not remember who 'I' was…it was really scarry, even though it never lasted for long periods of time…however, during that time, 'I' was in close contact with a friend who had also experienced similar things, so it was great that she was available for consultation and to compare notes…she said she believed it to be a re-experiencing of maybe the infant awareness, before the 'I' is ever formed…*shrugs…whatever it was, it was enough for me to stop playing around with 'losing my mind' to 'find my way'…LOL
I love dancing this joy of being…mind intact…being filled with joy and overflowing…tsk vision rocks…*
Hi Star,
I can appreciate what you say about the loss of control, the loss of the self that exerts control, and how that disorientation used to be scary, but with time and experience, now has a feeling of freedom. You also said now this loss of momentary control seems to happen without you controlling it, it just happens on its own… if I paraphrased it correctly.
It kind of reminded me of what I experienced years ago when I was first learning how to meditate. I was afraid to face whatever lay waiting internally. I didn't know what demons from my nightmares lurked there ready to spring at me from the darkness. I was afraid to relinquish control to even close my eyes. Fearing what I did not know, and whatever my imagination might conjure, was a barrier or boundary to my meditative practice. But never the less, I kept sitting quietly every morning and night to silently observe whatever presented itself. I felt guilty for being afraid. I thought of all the mystics who went before me and faced their own consciousness, and I felt that if I gave in to my fear I would be letting them down. :-) I actually felt that way. So I kept at it for months and months, on and on. Gradually I began to see that I did not present to myself anything I could not handle. It was a wondrous time of discovery and expansion.
Best, David
Hey David…you piqued my interest, and i would love to hear more about that wondrous time of discovery and expansion…
best, star…
Hey Sister!
Well… I just meant that with consistent internal observation came a familiarity from the self's perspective, with that came a comfort level the self could gradually relinquish control without panic, until it could let go with a relative ease. So for me, the key to relinquishing the control of the self was to consistently sit calmly and observe what was going on internally, which is pretty much what TT is saying above. But along with that relinquishing came discovery of more space or openness. With more space available other events became noticeable. I began to see beneath the storylines, beneath the words that became meaningful, where yes and no could exist simultaneously. Over months of observation space seemed to expand, things were not always the narrow focus.
Along with the meditation practice I also began practicing the Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep, and that was something like putting a turbocharger on an engine, it seemed to increase and greatly expand my internal focus. There were what I considered then, peak experiences, which I won't go into here because they became a trap. These peak experiences became events the self wanted more of, and so it insinuated itself into my practice in order to look for these peaks in every pristine moment. It took me years to truly understand the nature of my own subtle, imprisonment. As Rinpoché says in the readings for this coming week:
When you are silently observing, and something new begins to happen, if you immediately wonder, ”is this it?” …whatever new that was going to emerge is replaced with the memory of your beloved and most desired experience. So once again, you are presented with the memory, the past, the gone, the unreal. Chasing ghosts became my passion simply because I was burned by the wonder and fascination of the glittering peak experience.
One of the things I love about TSK is that it is not about peak experiences. They can happen, but the focus is on inquiry, and the opening of experience.
D
Hey David…
I woke up thinking about you and this blog today…well, that is once 'I' allowed that thinking 'I' to focus…lol
What I have been experiencing for some time now, has been I think what we refer to as that freeing of focus…and yet, even if I refer to it as a freeing experience of the Joy of Being…there is an 'I' that feels it and reports back to awareness what it is feeling…gol
Sometimes, like today, I wake up not knowing what day it is…just in that space of bliss…and that freeing whatever does not want to get up and know…just wants to bask in the bliss of that sense of just being…without any desires except to be exactly as is…
However, I tend to have a little concern into this…as I know there have been others that have gotten lost or stuck here…remember Richard Rose??? I think went from being consider God to not knowing who he was or how to tie his shoes in a hospital with others having to care for him…
I have to think we have a discriminating mind for a good reason…and I am not willing to let go of it…to many problems within humanity that needs attending…
I have gained the ability to loose my focus on the 'I's' that give me indigestion gol, so-to-speak, for the most part…when they need to worry me they do and will I hope…for without them there would be no need for inquiry…and i love inquiry…i love life…maybe tomorrow the i that doesn't will pop up…but not today…gol
what i mostly experience is not a memory…although i do understand what u are referring to…for i am able to be in the moment…the one that is alive with activity…peak experiences of ecstasy and bliss are nice, but i am finding the joy of being in the here in now in this time and space ever so wonder-filled…enjoying the fall…the leaves blowing and scattering my spirit with them…my daughter and son inlaw and my two precious grand daughters were just here…how absolutey wonderful to get all those hugs and kisses that will be enuf to put me in that awesome space of remembering their preciousness and the way they looked and felt and smelled…and their kisses and i wuv u's…i am overflowing with the love and joy of them…even knowing it will be a while before i see them again…or maybe not….i don't go there…i stay in this moment of joy…and now this one where i am loving this conversation we are having…knowing that this vision has the potential to bring us not absolutes, but an ever opening view that works now…i am also loving my thinking mind…how wonderful it is to engage…
i am excited about continuing my inquiry into this 'knowing' that can open us up to our potential…i am excited for humanity…i am excited to be alive in this space and time…and to be diving into this knowing with you!
much love and joy my friend…star…